Zero 1K clear over Tamiya decal problem

[-Felix-]

Hello to all,

today I experienced a problem with my recent build, the 1/12 M23 from Tamiya. It's the reissue with the PE and therefore quite new cartograf decals. I am using the 1k clear from Zero and never had any reaction with other decals, even other Tamiya decals, so had no worry this time. The decals were thoroughly dried, some of them a couple of weeks. Since I used Mr. mark softer for some, i cleaned all parts before applying the first mist coats. But I don't think that's the problem, since I didn't use it on all. Also, the was no problem with the aftermarket decals which means there was no problem with drying or any residue on the surface. So after a couple of mist coats I applied the first wet coat and then disaster struck on the front wing. I then thought I applied wet too soon so i applied some more mist on other parts but that didn't help either (scoop and wing). Since I always thin the 1k clear I thought there was too much thinner in and tried the pure 1k, but that didn't change a thing either. Does anyone had the same problems and knows what caused it? As you can see, no problems on the gyear and mboro decals.. Very sad day for me because of lack of free time I barely do modeling and this means I destroyed months of work i was quite pleased with so far (started in early summer..) Apart from the fact that I maybe now have to strip the entire bloody thing and buy new decals, new aftermarket decals and the tape sheet for the 2 tone paint job. feel like crying.
Any ideas?

[SteveNoble]

The Zero 1k is quite "hot" in my opinion. Not as hot as some, but still hot enough to melt decals. I think the pin stripes have suffered because they are smaller decals, not as much area to hold them onto the surface of the model and they lift easier than the larger ones. Maybe you went a little too heavy , too soon. Clearing decals is always a risk. I've saved this kind of mishap before by letting them dry, sanding them back very lightly till they are flat and then applying new decals over the top of the damaged ones. However, if that doesn't work a strip and re-paint/new decals may be the only answer

[F1Xena]

[quote="-Felix-"]Hello to all,

. feel like crying.


Your have my sympathy. I'd be the same. Sorry, I've never used Zero paints so I have no help to offer.

[hirofkd]

Looks like the cleat was too wet, and the thickness of the mist coats was uneven.
I've seen similar problem with Tamiya TS-13 spray, too.
I believe 1K clear uses hot lacquer, so the thinner would be even stronger than Tamiya's synthetic lacquer.

In both cases, it's not so much as to the type of clear, but it's the application method.
Each combination of clear and decal requires a different method of clear coating, and in this case, an extreme care
should have been taken for the sensitive Cartograf decals and the aggressive 1K thinner.

I think you can save the rear wing and engine cover because the decals don't look wavy, but it just appear to be a normal orange peel.
You can slowly keep building layers of clear, then sand and polish.
The lines on the front wing will have to be redone. If you have access to a laser printer, you can make your own, since it's just a black line.
You can also cut out lines out of a sheet of solid black decal (or you can make your own), and touch up the corners with careful masking.

The rest of the model seems good, so I hope you manage to recover.

For a reference, I apply 4-6 coats of protective mist coat, 4-8 light coats of medium wet coat to build enough thickness for sanding and polishing, and 2-3 wet coats to smooth the surface, with adequate drying time in-between. I also alter the clear, thinner and retarder mixing ratio from think to thin as I add more layers, and the final coat is mostly thinner. With that many coats, I still don't lose surface details because each coat is very thin.
With a spray can, it's a lot less than that, but appropriate care should be taken when building the protective mist coats. It's quite a wasteful way of using a spray can, and I usually end up using the entire can for a typical 1/24 scale car body.

[-Felix-]

Thank you very much for your replies and tips! Gives me hope that I may be able to rescue the parts. I'll just leave them for a while to completely dry now and see what I can do. But even on the wing, it's not an orange peel from bad application, it's just on the decal itself. The part itself where no decals was placed is smooth and shiny. You can feel it with you finger, going over the surface, smooth on the part and then rough on the decal.

Edit: If you say the 1k is a very hot lacquer, is the 2k better? I've got the 2k matt clear from zero, do you think it would be worth the try sanding it a bit down to smoothen out trying not to damage the decals (except the lines on the flaps, they are gone..) and applying some coats with the 2k until it's completely covered and the applying a shiny wet gloss 1k coat? Maybe then the decals are not harmed by the 2k and preserved from the final 1k coats?

[Cratecruncher]

If you say the 1k is a very hot lacquer, is the 2k better? I've got the 2k matt clear from zero, do you think it would be worth the try sanding it a bit down to smoothen out trying not to damage the decals (except the lines on the flaps, they are gone..) and applying some coats with the 2k until it's completely covered and the applying a shiny wet gloss 1k coat? Maybe then the decals are not harmed by the 2k and preserved from the final 1k coats?

I prefer 2K clears because there is no lacquer thinner to burn the decals like 1k and they "dry" much faster than water based acrylics (like X22) which can leave finger prints. The 2k urethanes work like epoxy glue. You add activator to the paint instead of thinning with solvent. When the 2k "dries" it's actually not drying at all but instead curing in a chemical reaction between the paint and activator to form a solid plastic shell around your model. It doesn't shrink back like solvent-based clears as their solvent evaporates leaving the solids behind. The wet 2k coat is WYSIWYG, (what you see is what you get). Zero has 2k in tiny little jars or you can buy it by the quart at a local paint jobber and know what you're getting. I like the Dupont Chromaclear HC-7776S and 7775S activator. It becomes tack-free quickly allowing you to handle parts safely within about 15 minutes. You can buy it off Ebay for about $70.

If it were my model I'd strip the finish and start over with 2k gloss. However, if you can restore the decals you might be able to shoot the 2k matt over them and polish it into a gloss using micromesh abrasives and crème polish. (Try it first on scrap to see if you can get it to gloss up.) I'd keep that hot 1k for a non-decal paint job in the future.

[SteveNoble]

I use the Zero 2k clear on every paint job I do where I clear over decals. It really is the best clear I've ever used over decals, very gentle, it's never ruined any decals I've tried it over and always gives a nice finish. Some people say that it looks unrealistic, too thick, like treacle, but it's all in the thinning, application and polishing.
I'm not sure that applying the 2k over the current parts you have and then going over with 1k will work. I heard it can wrinkle the 2k..?? Can anyone confirm this..??

[-Felix-]

I couldn't resist and took the wing and got the micromesh out and tried evening out. Worst that could happen was destroying the decals while sanding, but if that didn't work I would have to do it again anyway, so why not worth the try..
Result was quite surprising, but of course not perfect. I was able to get a shiny and flat finish, but in the second picture you can see all those little cracks in the black stripes, so the decal was really damaged by the clear. Anyway, I think I am going to try to do this with all panels and get away with it (except the front wings). The result is not that bad doing the whole paint job all over again would be worth it. I'll let you know how it worked out if you want?

BTW: 2K Zero Clear order placed

[Paul_OFarrell]

Hi Felix,

That's a good recovery you have made with the rear wing. Whilst there are small cracks in the black lines, only the most observant viewer would have seen them.
Your work with the polishing kit proves that even a lumpy orange peel surface can be knocked down to an acceptable shine.

It is a shame that the front wing elements will probably need to be stripped and re-done, but you could certainly try to eliminate the orange peel on the engine cover by using the polishing kit again.

Let us know how it turns out.

Cheers, Paul
Sydney, Oz.

[turboF1]

That's a great recovery. How long did it take with the micro mesh to smooth it out?