F1 testing Barcelona

[Moskie]

As for the past being better then the present: I just checked a random F1 year (1985) and found out at some races only 2 or 3 cars finished the race. With a difference between the number one and 3 often being more than one lap. I do not think these races were more exciting than the average 2018 race.

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.htm ... races.html

[JamesB]

Moskie, I (as many vets here) witnessed '85 season. Yes, some races were like that. Needless to say that someone it takes just two RACERS to make the show, either here or at Indycar, bikes...
The sweet point of, fr instance, '85 was the variety of technical solutions, visualy different cars, and most of all: unprdictibility.
It might be a bit "artificial" that the thrill of racing should be graviting arund the leader has a DNF, but well... it works!!
Anyway, the fact that almost everyone finishes (in contrast with 2 or 3 finishing) doesn't make it better.
Nowadays, maybem we analyse ALL much more than before. And things get too complicated. Bikes racing has remained simple (no matter if it's with technical tricks on tne rules), and that makes it sooo good.
Watching races today is as good as watching 18 years ago that troop of Biaggi, Crivi, Barros, Roberts jr, Rossi... er, wait Rossi is actually still there!! haha. Sorry for the cheap joke. Then there's as good as watching Lawson, Rainey, Doohan, Kevin, Spencer, Mamola, Gardner... 30 years ago.

[Moskie]

I was born in '67, it is not that I am too young to know 'the old days'.

I watched F1 on tv (usually only a summary was broadcasted) if I could when I was a kid, heck I even made technical drawings about how I thought cars could run faster (in retrospect: how cars could launch themselves into the air ) but lost interest somewhere during the '80 and started watching again somewhere early '00's. The '80 and '90 didn't appeal to me at all. Although I can't really say why. I never got into the whole Senna/Prost thing. I think I really found my interest again once around the time Michael Schumacher scored his last championship.

For diversity: the early '70's seasons are my all-time favorites, car-wise. I think in the '80 most of the (visable!) differences were gone.

People won't agree and have different opinions. That's what make's human kind interesting..

[stubeck]

As for the past being better then the present: I just checked a random F1 year (1985) and found out at some races only 2 or 3 cars finished the race. With a difference between the number one and 3 often being more than one lap. I do not think these races were more exciting than the average 2018 race.

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.htm ... races.html

I have been watching the old F1 seasons. I initially started with 99, and then went all the way back to 84. I just started the 87 season. The biggest difference I see between then and now is the fact that drivers actually spun off track, there was actual reliability issues, and going off track meant you couldn't restart. As much as people claim that they don't want to see drivers going off track punished, I think it would make it much more interesting as it'd stop some of the ridiculouslness we see with the stewards needing to say whether a pass was legal.

[Moskie]

I agree with the fact that people going off track should have more impact on the race. The big roll off areas are constructed for safety reasons, I think. I would not want drivers being hurt, rolling though gravel.

The reliability is better. I think that is a good thing. The impact of the fuel limits is much worse, in my opinion.

[JamesB]

Moskie, being (even ) a year older than you, I missed most of 70's. So 80's were the first contact "in deep", so you are right, it's more about our personal taste than objectively measured fun or interest (which is a contradiction in termine).
Maybe smething that has a considerable weight is that... we were younger!! so we associate things to other things in life, I guess. Anyway good to know you are a long time "enjoyer" too.
Leaving the track... well, we came to think damage was too big, and OFFS ruined races. I remember people saying "tracks should be an area limited by a white line", well probably they went too far with this.

[stubeck]

Of course I don't want anyone injured, but we've gone too far the other way with asphalt everywhere causing not just problems with track limits but also being a safety hazard. While there is always the risk of a car flipping with gravel, I think the risk of this is overstated as well as the risk of injury. What I think we should have is a few feet of grass or slippery paint to ensure there is a real performance loss of seconds and not just a few tenths like we have now when a driver goes off track. The asphalt runoffs are meant to help maintain driver control in an emergency, but as we've found with Massa's crash in 09 and many other times, asphalt simply doesn't stop a car as well as gravel does.

I think once we get back to strips of grass on corner exit you'll see a lot more improvements with the racing. Thats the biggest thing I see the difference between racing now and in the 80s. Cars actually spun and drivers had mistakes, which made the results more interesting.

[cbk57]

A lot of what has happened around tracks is to make them safer, the sand traps of the 90’s were thought to be safer and prevent big hits. If you landed in one usually the race was over. I don’t think we can retrograde the tracks as safety is always going to be the driving force going foreword. Any changes outside the racing line are usually going to have a primary emphasis on safety and second on imposing track limits or some sort of penalty for leaving the track. So we will continue to see penalties for exceeding track limits.

Reliability is what it is. When I started watching racing, I watched everything obsessively, NASCAR, Indycar, F1, Sprint Car. If it had four wheels and was on TV is wanted to watch it. First and Formost reliability has improved enourmously across all venues. This is just a product of cumulative engineering knowledge. The current f1 engine package is making power that would have been a qualifying engine in 1988. Today they get 7 races out of the engine package in many cases. All Motorsports are in a pretty similar situation, the cars are a lot more reliable than they used to be.

Then there is the money factor, it goes up every year, I would prefer no limits racing but that is just not realistic. I don’t argue things are better now than in the past. I loved the past when I watched f1, indycar and NASCAR in the early 1990’s especially. That time is gone, I am choosing to enjoy F1 as it is and not reject it because I think the past was bettter. The experience now is a lot different from what it was in the past. I enjoy it but accept it as a different experience and choose not to measure it against the past.

The best thing about the present is the HD broadcasting is making for a lot better view of what is happening.

[stubeck]

I guess my point is that massive runoffs aren't safe, as we saw with Massa in Hungary 09 because the car is just a sled. We also don't really see penalties for going off track which is the problem, but that is more an issue with Whiting being worthless these days. He'll complain about something for a race, say "this is what we're doing now!" and then 2 races later he's completely forgotten it.

[Moskie]

I guess my point is that massive runoffs aren't safe, as we saw with Massa in Hungary 09 because the car is just a sled. We also don't really see penalties for going off track which is the problem, but that is more an issue with Whiting being worthless these days. He'll complain about something for a race, say "this is what we're doing now!" and then 2 races later he's completely forgotten it.

I think for the one example you give there are many in which the runoff area's proved to be safer than the gravel pits.

There must be way's to slow the cars down without danger once they go off track. A slippery area seems a good idea but in your example would work in the opposite way. I'm not a supporter of technical penalties but it must be possible to give a car a 10% power loss for one lap once is decided the driver unlawfully exited the track.