McLaren MP4/6 Monocoque Color/Texture

[plastiksurgeon]

I looked at both the video and the gurney flap pictures. Any color you see is reflected light from around the room. Any green you're seeing come from fluorescent lighting.

When I said flat black I shouldn't have emphasized the word flat, It's definitely black with no color, but early carbon did have a semi-semi-sheeny surface to it (almost flat) that reflects colored light from around the room. Proper color balance has been a problem in photography for 100 years. It still is.

The monocoque of the MP4/6 is black.

[daveyman]

Looks more interesting with a hint of colour and the use of artistic licence.

[plastiksurgeon]

I think it stands alone itself as a pretty interesting car, even in it's real colors.

[daveyman]

Oh it's a beauty whatever colour it is, that's a fact. Great to have your input on this Steve.

[Hein]

Hi all,

Yesterday i made two pictures of real carbon UD (unidirectional) parts wich i make for work (space solar panel substrates).
The shiny one is a mold side finish, the matt one is the peel ply side.
I put a black rattle can cap on it to compare.
So it is black.. but not really though.. also with naked eye it has a sort of glow/silvering to it wich give it a kind of deepness.

Hein

[daves]

I met with Bil Attridge when he was on a duty trip with the Canadian Navy. He came to port in Pearl Harbor. Super nice guy. He shared with me his carbon formula, as I was building the MP4/6 at that time. I also got to see his MP on a trip to Victoria Canada. He also shared his technique on the radiator side pods. He played tissue paper over them, painted with thinned white glue and flat black.
I think it came out great although it is labor intensive. Now a days I use Tamiya metallic black or gray spray.
As an aside, Bil told me that he had a small work area on board so he could continue the MP4/6 build and meet the deadline for TamiyaCon.
Dave

[robdebie]

Yesterday i made two pictures of real carbon UD (unidirectional) parts wich i make for work (space solar panel substrates).
The shiny one is a mold side finish, the matt one is the peel ply side.
I put a black rattle can cap on it to compare.
So it is black.. but not really though.. also with naked eye it has a sort of glow/silvering to it wich give it a kind of deepness.

Thanks for taking the trouble to photograph the panel! I'm kinda surprised how gray the peel ply side looks. I guess that's the result of all the 'broken' epoxy from when the peel ply is removed, that in itself will look whitish. Black + white = gray, so it does make sense. I've got a similar panel, but it could take some time to unearth it.

I'm currently reading John Barnard's biography. It tells the story of the first MP4/1 monocoques being built by Hercules. The first one delivered was full of wrinkles and creases, to the horror of Barnard. I recognised the wrinkle problem: unless your vacuum bag is perfectly done, you will have these. It is near impossible to avoid the foil wrinkles - I would dare to say that a perfect vacuum bag will only happen on a thin flat laminate. So I'm wondering now how Hercules managed to build the subsequent monocoques without wrinkles..

Rob

[robdebie]

Thanks for taking the trouble to photograph the panel! I'm kinda surprised how gray the peel ply side looks. I guess that's the result of all the 'broken' epoxy from when the peel ply is removed, that in itself will look whitish. Black + white = gray, so it does make sense. I've got a similar panel, but it could take some time to unearth it.

My own analysis of why Hein's panel looked gray (black + white = gray) made me think some more. The epoxy resins that I am used to is all fairly low-temperature stuff, say 80C max, and the generally stay clear, or white when its broken (like when you rip off the peel ply).

However, typical autoclave epoxy resins are cured at higher temperature, say 130C. That often results in a brownish /golden color of the epoxy itself. I don't know what color results when you break this brownish /golden resin (peel ply), but I would guess a yellowish color. Therefore, the MP4/5 peel ply surface *could* be slightly brownish / golden after all! But I have never seen it myself - maybe someone else can comment?

Rob

[robdebie]

Another thought: since the monocoque was built on a male mould, the inside of the monocoque is probably be glossy, like Hein's panel, top photo..

Rob

[robdebie]

I found a page with some great hi-res photos of the MP4/1 monocoque, where you can see the roughness, some wrinkles and the matt black color:

http://www.eurocarnews.com/187/0/0/5164 ... etail.html

Rob