Decanting paint, why?

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sky1911
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Decanting paint, why?

Post by sky1911 »

Hi,

so I'm new to the whole airbrush game. Matter of fact, my compressor arrived on Friday and my gun will, most likely, arrive Monday or Tuesday. I have a bunch of testors paints that I've bought a while ago from the US and I intend of getting a few jars of Tamiyas X and XF paints. Now those jars are relatively expensive, ranging from ~2.80-5.30€ per 23 ml, some only come in 10 ml jars for about the same. However, all those are acrylic paints - at least according to my understanding of the matter. Now big T also sells big spraycans with 100ml of paint (TS, AS) series. Those, I believe, are lacquers, not acrylic based paints. Hence one can be thinned with water (acrylics) while the other (lacquers) need some alcohol based thinners. So it would seem the paints are different can and jar. I somehow thought they'd be the same, of course minus the aerosol release agent in the cans. So if they are not the same, what is the benefit of decanting TS paints from the can into a jar, having them degas and then thin them as needed. Surely there must be some difference - that apparently I am missing - outside the price difference: jar 23 ml fpr say 3.00€ average compared to 100 ml can for about 6-10€.
Also, I see this being done with the Tamiya Primers - why? Simply because better control can be had through the airbrush (with rated flow, pressure, plus a controlable trigger)? As far as I know there are now jars of primer from Tamiya - or I didn't find them during my research.

Anyway, I have a number of paints from the X and XF series in a shopping cart, ready to order for the WNW WW1 plane models, so I'm kinda curious if I should go forward with that or try and get similar TS cans to decant etc.
Cheers,
Roman
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Re: Decanting paint, why?

Post by JamesB »

You mostly answered yourself. :D and quite well.
Reasons?
Say goodbye to:
-bad paint control (subtleties like "mist coats" and so on)
-trashing 75% of paint, being optimistical. Try to paint a suspension strut with a can
-fixed thinner ratio
Say hello to: -good control, -paint non-waste...
Besides, TS paints are quite good. Easy to apply, super resistant...
Yes they are closer to the X pots than it seems. X have a thinner that is a "bridge" with water: mollecuale which have an end that matches paint, other water solluble.
But yellow cap Tamiya thinner may be used with both TS and X
Then there's the thing of decanting itself: I have read quite ellaborated sytems with metal tubes. I spray directly inside plastic bottles with 1/2" diameter cap. I degas by shaking gently and opening a bit the cap.
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Re: Decanting paint, why?

Post by CaptainMark »

Hi Roman,

James nailed it;
  • much more finesse of control which often leads to better results;
  • less wastage (by a LOT);
  • and you'll also be able to drop the spray pressure down (and thin the paint more accordingly) to effectively airbrush small parts without blowing them away or the 'nooks and crannies' of various pieces without it going matt or getting more granular build-up etc;
As for decanting Tamiya TS lacquers, this is by far and away the easiest and most efficient method I've ever used to get paint from a spray can into an airbrush (link below) You may want to decant into a mixing jar or something similar first so that you can get a feel for how much to thin the lacquer paints, but after a while you'll be able to decant straight into the airbrush and thin from there.

Decanting Article Link
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Re: Decanting paint, why?

Post by sky1911 »

Hi James, CaptainMark,

cheers for confirming and answering the benefits of decanting from spray cans. And on the decanting itself, I have read almost everything from "I decant it straight to the paint cup of the brush, wait 5min, then fire away" to "I decant into glass bottles, air it out for a couple of days (!)" or to "I decant, then let it sit in a closed jar, air it out once after a day, then close the jar, repeat after 24hours, etc.". That always leads me to question of the paints wouldn't start drying out doing that? I mean the top layer is in direct contact with the air, soo....? And of course then there is the art and science of thinning the paint and stirring (fervent or docile) which can lead to an explosion of paint. That, I guess, I will have to discover myself or maybe stick to the tried and tested methods on a per paint basis. Apparently different colours of the same paint range react differently as well. Now who said this would be easy? ;).
But I digress. My main question is - are there differences in the colours (quality, shade) between the TS and X / XF series and also considering they are of different types (acrylic vs. lacquer), I would think maybe one is more toxic (TS) than the other (X/XF) and requiring different protection levels (face mask / filter type thing). Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
For the most part, I have been using acrylic paints, albeit in a household manner like painting doors, cupboards and the likes using foam rollers. A layer or two of clear layered on top the same way.

I've never used either TS sprays or X / XF colours. The latter may agree with me more, due to being acrylic (see above) or maybe it doesn't - we'll see soon enough.

Since the only can I have is a big T primer, I may start the trials with that :) this coming week.
Cheers,
Roman
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Re: Decanting paint, why?

Post by MarcoSaupe »

I prefer to use decanted Tamiya spray cans instead of other colours, because for me it's the easiest way to paint.

Paints from the jar often have to be thinned, and this can be guesswork, because the paint gets thicker as it gets older, and I hate to redo a paintjob because I thinned too much or not enough. I just decant TS into the airbrush, waith 5 minutes for the bubbles to disappear and then go.
Other prethinned paints that are ready to use like Zero Paints, can be a bit aggressive to some plastic and damage it.
TS paints also dry very quickly and are pretty robust.
You can also decant in a jar and mix colours.

With decanted TS colours airbrushing parts is almost idiot proof (the mistakes you can still do, you can do with other colours as well...)
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Re: Decanting paint, why?

Post by CaptainMark »

The colours should be extremely close if not exactly the same between paint types. I'm trying (and failing) to think of a scenario where you'd use different paint types but the same colour on a model, where any colour discrepancy might be evident... but I doubt that scenario would happen so the problem of any slight difference in colour is somewhat moot.

As for the quality, you may find that you simply get better results personally from one or the other out of an airbrush, and gravitate towards that paint type after some practise with both. However I tend to use lacquers for anything that needs a mirror-like shine. I believe the lacquers set 'harder' which allows me to be a bit more aggresive with the polishing to get that perfect shine and finish.

And you're totally correct, lacquers are more toxic. I spray outdoors essentially and don't use a mask, but if you don't have a setup like this then a mask is a good idea (plus very good room ventilation).

Oh... and the other point you've already touched on yourself, the lacquers are cheaper overall if you're going to be using a lot of one colour. For this reason alone I always use Tamiya lacquers where possible for vehicle bodies/cowling etc.

However for anything military where I'll need a flat/matt finish, I'll use Tamiya acrylics. This is pretty much entirely due to the fact that I don't believe Tamiya has a "flat base" additive available for their clear lacquer so I can't get the finish I want.
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Re: Decanting paint, why?

Post by CK »

Hi Roman,

I use Tamiya acrylic paint a lot for my cars because it is alcohol/waterbase and is less toxic. In the old days I use Tamiya TS cans before I owned an airbrush. TS cans are easy to use and give good results more you master the distance and speed of spray. However I really hate that smell.

Now for X/XF paints, Tamiya also offer an enamel paint. They are in small square bottles. These are easy to use for hand painting small areas but need oil base solvent.

For acrylic X/XF paints, I find it quite difficult to control. It is probably because I have a fine tip for my airbrush. It clogs the tip very often. I have to add Tamiya retarding agent to slow the drying. Also, it is better to use Tamiya's thinner for better result. Others have use isopropyl-alcohol, water, or windshield washer fluid to thin the paint.

Tamiya also has the new LP lacquer paint. I have read from some people saying they are just the same TS paint in jars so that you don't need to de-can.

The TS series has a lot of colors that are not offered in the other series, especially for racing colors.

Well using an airbrush can be satisfying or frustrating depending on your level of experience. I am still in the frustration camp.
C K
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Re: Decanting paint, why?

Post by PeteJ »

Been doing decanting of Tamiya paints for years now and can add a little to the converstion. First Tamiya rattle cans(TS and TA numbers) are indeed synthetic lacquers. They thin with acetone or lacquer thinners. In excessive quantities they are quite toxic and flammable so a respirator and caution are highly recommended.

The Tamiya rattle cans will yield 50ml(a large tamiya mixing jar) of paint through decanting. Depending on the paint I may or maynot thin it more but one can can give you a lot of airbrushable paint. I have not been able to get my hands on the bottled lacquers yet(LP numbers) so I can't speak to the paints. I have second hand knowledge that the paint calls for a 50/50 mix of thinner per jar.

Frankly, I dislike the acrylics. They are difficult to spray and tend to accumulate on the nozzle of an airbrush. They also have been difficult for me to thin properly. By the way, a better thinner than water is 91% alcohol. Water based is a bit of a misnomer. The solvent is actually alcohol and water.

If you are thinking of decanting there are several methods and multiple threads on this web site about that. I would suggest that you look at those and choose a method that suits you best.
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Re: Decanting paint, why?

Post by klinad »

You can try the Tamiya's LP series, they come in a bottel and are lacquer based. They are actually the very paint from the TS and some of the AS series, so you don't have to decan it.
I am now more or less quiting the use of acrylic paints since it won't give you a fine finish. For interiors they are ok but of camo patterns, they are not easy to use.
I also prefer the MR Color's lacquer series which offer more colours. The particles of metal paints are much finer than the acrylics.
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Re: Decanting paint, why?

Post by sky1911 »

I agree on the durability of lacquer over acrylics. That is something I have also witnessed in real world applications, see above. Lacquer based paints took longer until fully cured / hardened, but were then considerably more durable than acrylics. I will have to think about that.
Having just checked on the prices for the LP type paints. Holy cow, what a ripoff 10 ml for 3€? If I go for X / XF I get at least double that - for the most part. And if I go for TS cans, I get double that again at those prices. Whoppee. Especially considering, as has been mentioned here, that the LP is the TS in a glass jar. Those small glasses must be super expensive then. Why not use plastic jars or similar containers as AK does?

Anyway, thank you for all your input on this topic. I will have some reading up to do - and when the adapter (which I only found I forgot to order as well) for the gun to the hose also shows up, I can start testing.
What I take from this discussion is that properly thinning acrylic paints and making them work with your airbrush seems to be an artform in its own right, that can still be hit or miss. So I'll try ordering a few TS cans and try my hand at decanting as I have everything else on hand. Plus I have to dive into my archives to find what type of paint the Testors paints I have actually are - I assume lacquer based.
Other than that I am now trying to match TS # to the X / XF callouts I have.
Cheers,
Roman
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