View topic - Heller Ligier JS11 1/12 - update 22 March

Heller Ligier JS11 1/12 - update 22 March

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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12

Postby JamesB » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:17 am

Chinamalc wrote:Yes I know - You need to wait for the next update!!

M.

I can't wait :D
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12

Postby Modelbautony » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:00 pm

Hello Malc. Thanks for you response and interest. Firstly, apologies for making you panic, it was not my intention. Nor was it to make you go perform a whole lot more work - checking the exhaust - at a stage that you were probably not at yet. My mistake is very much self inflicted - but it has taken this communication for it to dawn on me. The research photos I have for the JS11 are far from comprehensive and not one of them showed the engine bay clearly. I had therefore resorted to a variety of references of Cosworth DFV engines in a variety of other team cars. I attach one from a McLaren M23 from the same era which clearly shows a cooling pipe running from up near the edge of the cam cover.
M23.jpg


This is backed up by the Williams FW07. Consequently I faithfully knocked something up. However, and as I say this has only just dawned on me, this now prevents the exhaust cluster coming far enough up to connect with the exit pipe.
IMG_20200227_141650077.jpg
IMG_20200227_141659173.jpg
IMG_20200227_142202338.jpg
IMG_20200227_142218037.jpg


Now I look closer at my JS11 research I can see that the cooling pipe runs underneath the exhaust cluster!

I am still sure though that the fit and shape of the pipes is inherently incorrect. I've buggered about so much with sanding and shaping at various points, but especially the 'port' ends, that I've probably made it impossible to fit correctly now.
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12

Postby Chinamalc » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:31 pm

Thanks for posting up the pics, I can see you have put a lot of effort in to that, glad my explanation helped.
You are right, 1979 was the dawn of ground effects and exhausts were moved up out of the venturi airflow, so everything else moved to suit, inc the cooling pipes. FW07 and M23 are prior to the full length venturis as you have discovered.
I wonder if we can persuade indygp2001 to give up his exhausts to you!!
Failing that, I suggest you split them apart at the original joints, reinstate the spigot pins in the collector ends, drill matching holes and have another go?
An alternative is to roll new headers in milliput between two strips of wood (to get a constant diameter) and then while it is soft drape the milliput to the correct shape, it is slow as you have to do one, let it set then do the next, so probably only one per day.
Or you could use solder of the correct diameter and superglue to join at the collector.

Malc.
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12

Postby Modelbautony » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:17 pm

Oh Malc. I must have ordered and tried innumerable 'wires' to re-work those pipes - why do wire manufacturers describe their products as soft when in reality they are harder to bend than bridge girders? I can't find here in the UK solder that is thick enough - 4mm. I like your suggestion of the milliput though. Thank you. Would you like copies of my research photos, although it sounds very much like you'll have them already?
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12

Postby Chinamalc » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:30 pm

Modelbautony wrote: Would you like copies of my research photos, although it sounds very much like you'll have them already?


Yes please! Can't ever have enough research material! I will PM you.
Never thought you could not get 4mm solder here in the UK, when I was living in China you could get every size up to 20mm x 35mm x 500mm bars!
M.
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12

Postby Chinamalc » Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:25 pm

So while that was going on I had ordered these and some aluminium rod.
IMG_5817.JPG
The C shape is an adaptor I had to make for my die holder
To make these
IMG_5818.JPG
Which go here, the small diameter is a press fit in to the front upright
IMG_5819.JPG
And assembled
IMG_5820.JPG
Proper working wheel nuts! The hole in wheel rim and brake disc was opened out to 4mm diameter on the lathe
IMG_5825.JPG
The backside of the wheel hub was increased in diameter with two diameters of plastic tube to strengthen the remaining wheel hub and provide a bigger mating surface to the bigger bell on brake disc, (still to be made)
The lathe was slowed to its slowest setting and I still melted the front wheel hub on the second wheel! (its that second time curse again….)
While I had the lathe out, I decided to make the inner half of the rear rim fit JamesB’s resin wheels
IMG_5821.JPG
Rim parted off and turned round to fine tune the diameter, the fit was checked with the wheel before removing what remaind of the wheel rim from the chuck.
IMG_5822.JPG
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12

Postby Chinamalc » Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:35 pm

Having done that I made the stub axles for the rear wheels, the shoulder on the stub buts up against the inside of the rear upright flange, the inside end of the stub is drilled to take the driveshaft. The outboard end drive shafts still need to be shortened slightly.
IMG_5828.JPG
So following this success I looked again at the front brake discs, the mating surface between the wheel and disc should be bigger to allow for the peg drive, I thought of adding plastic and filler to the existing disc but none of the schemes I came up with were very good, so I bit the bullet and made some new discs to include the disc bell, the downside was having to drill 20 more holes in the edge of each disc……….
IMG_5827.JPG
New discs made from SikaBlock PUR
IMG_5832.JPG
Glad I kept the drawing for marking out the holes I made earlier
IMG_5826.JPG
IMG_5833.JPG
New Vs kit part. I mistakenly cut off the inboard ‘ears’ of the left calliper, so remade them in plastic card, if you look at one of the earlier posts you can see these ears were moulded as sharp pointed triangles, in reality they are radiused as shown, they should have a small fixing bolt in the centre of each ear which bolts the outer part of the calliper to the centre piece.
IMG_5834.JPG
IMG_5835.JPG
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12

Postby Chinamalc » Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:42 pm

Meanwhile what I had forgotten is that the smaller 13inch wheels mean that the kit rear uprights will not fit inside the wheel rims, thoughtfully JamesB had provided new resin uprights with his wheels, but I forgot that …….. Until after I had modified the kit parts. To boost motivation I got a bit ahead of myself and painted the rear uprights on a rare sunny day a couple of weeks ago…..
Cut line marked
IMG_8413.JPG
Somehow I sanded too much away from the horizontal outer edge, so the angle of the small piece is wrong, luckily I could compare it to the unmodified part and correct this!
IMG_8417.JPG
Clearance inside wheel, oddly only the top needs reducing, the bottom arm has plenty of clearance in the smaller wheel
IMG_8418.JPG
First one glued together again, about 2mm has been removed compared to the unmodified part
IMG_8419.JPG
Both done, with a smear of filler to hide the joint and paint cleaned off in 99% isopropyl alcohol
IMG_8423.JPG
The front inner wheel rims were parted off in the lathe like the rears and matched to the resin wheel which was bored out to suit, on the left showing the parted off rim, on the right the assembled parts
IMG_8430.JPG

Thats all for now.
Malc
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12

Postby JamesB » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:15 am

Chinamalc wrote:While I had the lathe out, I decided to make the inner half of the rear rim fit JamesB’s resin wheels

ED:
Ah, wait, I get it! :lol: :lol:

Oh yes, when I corrected the rear upright, I did what you point: lowering the upper rocker/link attachments, there was room enough inside the 13" rim for the lower part, yes.
The lower end also needs some rework, Heller's shape is no good, Tamiya is.
I filled the Heller part with resin so I could sand it to the proper shape without hitting void :wink:
Great job as ever :D
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12

Postby cevert » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:43 am

Modelbautony wrote:Oh Malc. I must have ordered and tried innumerable 'wires' to re-work those pipes - why do wire manufacturers describe their products as soft when in reality they are harder to bend than bridge girders? I can't find here in the UK solder that is thick enough - 4mm. I like your suggestion of the milliput though. Thank you. Would you like copies of my research photos, although it sounds very much like you'll have them already?



This is how the exhausts on his tyrrell 006 1/12 Mark Oakley resolved. You can find other pictures on
https://twitter.com/mrof1models
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