Heller Ligier JS11 1/12 - update 01 May
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12
Very nice detail work, looking great!
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12
fantastic wip, with all those tips & techniques, and reference photos from everyone
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Topic author - Best of the Rest
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12
Aw, fanks chaps, you are all most kind. The pictures you have posted have been really useful.
So this time more suspension works, I move to the front and the seat..... again.
Rear lower wishbones received some attention with scraps of plastic card and rod and Milliput. I assembled all the bits so I could have a look at the back of the car so far. With the main parts of the back suspension sorted out, I turned to the front of the car.
The front corners of the tub were extended with plastic card and the brake master cylinders and fluid reservoirs added, the reservoir lids are still to be made. It’s only after looking at photos, you suddenly realise the significance of what you are seeing and had missed the last 10 times you looked. This is a good case in point, on the real car (and the kit) there is a line of rivets marching along each side of the front roll bar support These indicate the top edge of the inside wall of the footwell - as shown on this photo below of a JS11/15 I took at Silverstone last year. However the kit footwell walls are well outboard of this line of rivets.
I tend not to use modern pictures too much, as updates and restoration changes many things, but in this case I believe the footwell construction is the same for the ’79 and ‘80 cars
I will digress with a bit of history, in all 5 JS11s were made, 4 in 1979 and one in 1980, and all were updated to 1980 spec so none remain in ‘79 spec. The main mods as far as I can work out were – rear brakes moved outboard, rear anti roll bar flipped over to move the mounting forwards, rear shocks moved rearwards, engine cover added, rear side pods changed shape, Gitanes font went from curved to angular and a taller fuel tank to name some of the major changes.
So the footwell should be one continuous line from the nose to the behind the seat, it isn’t in the kit, there is a huge step behind the rear wishbone support, so the offending parts removed.
So this time more suspension works, I move to the front and the seat..... again.
Rear lower wishbones received some attention with scraps of plastic card and rod and Milliput. I assembled all the bits so I could have a look at the back of the car so far. With the main parts of the back suspension sorted out, I turned to the front of the car.
The front corners of the tub were extended with plastic card and the brake master cylinders and fluid reservoirs added, the reservoir lids are still to be made. It’s only after looking at photos, you suddenly realise the significance of what you are seeing and had missed the last 10 times you looked. This is a good case in point, on the real car (and the kit) there is a line of rivets marching along each side of the front roll bar support These indicate the top edge of the inside wall of the footwell - as shown on this photo below of a JS11/15 I took at Silverstone last year. However the kit footwell walls are well outboard of this line of rivets.
I tend not to use modern pictures too much, as updates and restoration changes many things, but in this case I believe the footwell construction is the same for the ’79 and ‘80 cars
I will digress with a bit of history, in all 5 JS11s were made, 4 in 1979 and one in 1980, and all were updated to 1980 spec so none remain in ‘79 spec. The main mods as far as I can work out were – rear brakes moved outboard, rear anti roll bar flipped over to move the mounting forwards, rear shocks moved rearwards, engine cover added, rear side pods changed shape, Gitanes font went from curved to angular and a taller fuel tank to name some of the major changes.
So the footwell should be one continuous line from the nose to the behind the seat, it isn’t in the kit, there is a huge step behind the rear wishbone support, so the offending parts removed.
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Topic author - Best of the Rest
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12
Getting the shape right
So bearing in mind the tub has no steps in the sidewall, there is now a big step under the dash, this leads me to the conclusion that the Heller seat is far too wide, the 45 deg pieces at the top of the cockpit sides also appear too narrow, so to help confirm my suspicions, I present the honourable Sir Jackie Stewart from the Tamiya Tyrrell 003 and his Tyrrell seat alongside the standard Heller seat which, if you remember, I had already removed the moulded on seatbelts from and filled the hollow back. As you can see, the Heller seat is not exactly figure hugging. So what does this mean?
The scale width of the Heller seat at the hips is 36mm or 432mm full size (about 17 inches!). Using the Tyrrell seat as reference I reckon the Heller seat is about 5mm too wide.
While I pluck up the courage to cut the seat in half, back to the front.
The hole in the top of the tub between the wishbones is too big, so has been opened up in to a square, a couple of support strips added and an insert made – a lip has to be added round the edge of the hole in this plate and the one in the front of the roll hoop support, but I need to work out the steering rack mounting first. But before that…….
Not present in the kit are the forward wishbone supports, the black tubes in the photo below Anyone know what the electrical component is for at the foot of the down tube with the large heat sink?
Both sides in place with closing pieces added I have also added the subframe in the footwell with 2mm square rod. After I had done this I realised that the vertical pieces were incorrect, so were later removed again.So bearing in mind the tub has no steps in the sidewall, there is now a big step under the dash, this leads me to the conclusion that the Heller seat is far too wide, the 45 deg pieces at the top of the cockpit sides also appear too narrow, so to help confirm my suspicions, I present the honourable Sir Jackie Stewart from the Tamiya Tyrrell 003 and his Tyrrell seat alongside the standard Heller seat which, if you remember, I had already removed the moulded on seatbelts from and filled the hollow back. As you can see, the Heller seat is not exactly figure hugging. So what does this mean?
The scale width of the Heller seat at the hips is 36mm or 432mm full size (about 17 inches!). Using the Tyrrell seat as reference I reckon the Heller seat is about 5mm too wide.
While I pluck up the courage to cut the seat in half, back to the front.
The hole in the top of the tub between the wishbones is too big, so has been opened up in to a square, a couple of support strips added and an insert made – a lip has to be added round the edge of the hole in this plate and the one in the front of the roll hoop support, but I need to work out the steering rack mounting first. But before that…….
Not present in the kit are the forward wishbone supports, the black tubes in the photo below Anyone know what the electrical component is for at the foot of the down tube with the large heat sink?
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Topic author - Best of the Rest
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12
Some tube and laminated card carved to shape
Malc.
Assembled with bluetack to check for fit and appearance. Check again with the bodywork in place. Rinse and repeat for the other side Meanwhile I lengthened the pedal supports (sorry I forgot the before pic) and added brake balance bar and rubber boots for the master cylinders spun in the drill and filed/sanded to shape – to me they look very Wallace and Gromit…!
Moar next time.Malc.
Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12
WOW fantastic.
Nevertheless I would not recommend Sir Stewart as driver... figure does not fit too much that era if you really want to sit one there. And specially the helmet.
Nice gpa helmet? I have one!
Nevertheless I would not recommend Sir Stewart as driver... figure does not fit too much that era if you really want to sit one there. And specially the helmet.
Nice gpa helmet? I have one!
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Topic author - Best of the Rest
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12
Hi James,
There will be no driver figure in the finished model, he is just there to show how wide the seat was.
So the seat - part 3
(edit found a couple more pics of the seat mods)
So back to the seat, I decided it was too wide so took a couple of brave pills, and you guessed it, the razor saw of DOOM was employed to remove 5mm from the middle of the seat and then stuck it back together, it is now much closer to the width of the 1971 Tyrrell seat Above you can see how the width now compares more favourably to the Tyrrell seat.
The cockpit sides were brought in to suit the seat and now I think the proportions look much better. The back edge of the new footwell side plates have been moved outboard slightly under the dash hoop making the tub sides a continuous line from behind the seat to the end of the footwell and now as if by magic, the tops of these plates match the position of the previously mentioned rivet lines on the outside of the dash hoop. As a bonus, narrowing the seat means I could add yet more filler to the shoulder area making it more rounded like the original. You have to keep checking the body over the seat as clearance is quite tight just below the shoulders. Final round of filler and sanding on the seat and new hole for the gearstick. I am quite pleased with the final look compared to the real car.
Malc.
There will be no driver figure in the finished model, he is just there to show how wide the seat was.
So the seat - part 3
(edit found a couple more pics of the seat mods)
So back to the seat, I decided it was too wide so took a couple of brave pills, and you guessed it, the razor saw of DOOM was employed to remove 5mm from the middle of the seat and then stuck it back together, it is now much closer to the width of the 1971 Tyrrell seat Above you can see how the width now compares more favourably to the Tyrrell seat.
The cockpit sides were brought in to suit the seat and now I think the proportions look much better. The back edge of the new footwell side plates have been moved outboard slightly under the dash hoop making the tub sides a continuous line from behind the seat to the end of the footwell and now as if by magic, the tops of these plates match the position of the previously mentioned rivet lines on the outside of the dash hoop. As a bonus, narrowing the seat means I could add yet more filler to the shoulder area making it more rounded like the original. You have to keep checking the body over the seat as clearance is quite tight just below the shoulders. Final round of filler and sanding on the seat and new hole for the gearstick. I am quite pleased with the final look compared to the real car.
Malc.
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12
I must say that it takes a Manly Man to take on this kit! - The minute that Hiro decides to make a decent model of this car is the day I take my Heller JS11 to the back yard and throw it in the fire pit.
Just opening the box of this model is enough to give anyone nightmares! - So, to see you take it on like this is truly amazing! - best of luck on your way to the finish - I will be one of the first to applaud your valiant efforts...
Querque
PS: please people....NO!, I will not break up my model/ PILE OF CRAP JS11 for parts, etc...I do not want to be the reason one of my fellow F1M brothers committed suicide. OK, maybe the decals are salvageable...NOPE! the whole thing goes into the firepit (Maybe I'll post the burning on YouTube..., hehehe!)
Just opening the box of this model is enough to give anyone nightmares! - So, to see you take it on like this is truly amazing! - best of luck on your way to the finish - I will be one of the first to applaud your valiant efforts...
Querque
PS: please people....NO!, I will not break up my model/ PILE OF CRAP JS11 for parts, etc...I do not want to be the reason one of my fellow F1M brothers committed suicide. OK, maybe the decals are salvageable...NOPE! the whole thing goes into the firepit (Maybe I'll post the burning on YouTube..., hehehe!)
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Topic author - Best of the Rest
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12
Hi Indygp2001,
Thanks for your comments, for sure this is not a modern Tamiya shake and bake kit, but as others have shown, it can be made from the box in to an attractive model. – Assuming you have the hard plastic tyres! If not try the replacements from JamesB or Icon Automotive.
There are much, much, much worse 1/12 F1 kits out there!!! (a certain 1/12 Ferrari 1512 springs to mind).
Think of it as a product of its time (first released in 1979) and it was Hellers first go at a 1/12 F1 car, make it OOB as kerbside and it’s a nice kit.
Why not give it a go? Sounds like you have nothing to loose!
Malc.
Thanks for your comments, for sure this is not a modern Tamiya shake and bake kit, but as others have shown, it can be made from the box in to an attractive model. – Assuming you have the hard plastic tyres! If not try the replacements from JamesB or Icon Automotive.
There are much, much, much worse 1/12 F1 kits out there!!! (a certain 1/12 Ferrari 1512 springs to mind).
Think of it as a product of its time (first released in 1979) and it was Hellers first go at a 1/12 F1 car, make it OOB as kerbside and it’s a nice kit.
Why not give it a go? Sounds like you have nothing to loose!
Malc.
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Re: Heller Ligier JS11 1/12
The extra detailing is really making this build special !
I really appreciate all the time you're putting in, posting these updates.
Cheers
I really appreciate all the time you're putting in, posting these updates.
Cheers
Bruce Coy