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MFH 911 Carrera RSR Turbo

Models in progress... including non-F1 models.

Re: MFH 911 Carrera RSR Turbo

Postby puffyrs » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:26 pm

Love the oil cooler, great work
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Re: MFH 911 Carrera RSR Turbo

Postby VR2 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:54 am

thanks :-)

Hi Jesse, I produce the etched parts inhouse (complete workflow from design to etching). As I etch only for my own needs (QTY 1-2 per sheet), it doesn't make sense for me to let it etch externally. However, printing of the films is always done externally by a professional print service company.

To the hood pins ... they are functionally indeed
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Re: MFH 911 Carrera RSR Turbo

Postby sky1911 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:59 am

Ah, the etching question. That was something I was going to ask as well.
I think we may have talked about that in the past. Do you use nickel silver etching sheets and their etching solutions from Saemann? I should still have a UV exposure device that I bought several years ago. So only the printing needs to be done externally. Is your printing service a local or an online service?
That aside, top job. The radiator reminds me of what Marcus used on his P4, originally done by Rasputen for his own projects. I thought something like that might be used to get finer fins for the cylinders of the aircooled 6 and 12 cylinder Porsche engines :)
Cheers,
Roman
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Re: MFH 911 Carrera RSR Turbo

Postby VR2 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:38 pm

Roman, on your question: I'm using silver nickel (Neusilber) and brass sheets. Thickness ranging from 0.2 to 0.4mm. The supplier for the sheets, etching equipment and chemical stuff is Saemann. For the film print service, this is my supplier of choice (basically in my neighborhood but also with a great online service): https://www.filmbelichtung24.de/

Hope this helps !
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Re: MFH 911 Carrera RSR Turbo

Postby gp-models » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:21 am

Lovely details Uli and a superclean finish, looks awesome!
I only can imagine how much time you spend on drawing, taking measurements to do the etching parts! What are the costs to produce such sheets? Size of about a quarter of an A4 sheet, only the material costs incl the "Reprografie" costs? I mean the coated sheet, the chemicals and the costs for the negative prints without all the time effort of drawing and producing plus needed machines. Are the bare production costs high?
The full equipment must be a few hundred bucks and the prices for the graphic prints are not realy cheap i bet, right?
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Re: MFH 911 Carrera RSR Turbo

Postby VR2 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:34 am

Thx, "GP-Models" ... btw. have seen your fantastic 1:43 builds, very impressive in all aspects !

To your question on the etching process: Equipment costs are appr. 400 Euro. Production cost for a sheet size äquivalent to A4 format are appr. 50 Euro. The complete workflow is pretty time consuming, prone to error in case you miss the right parameters and produces hazardous chemical waste, which needs to be disposed in a environmentally sound and safe way. Despite all this "negative" side effects, if everything goes well, the results are absolutely rewarding ... but compared to etching, 3D printing is a "clean" process and easy going !
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Re: MFH 911 Carrera RSR Turbo

Postby gp-models » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:35 am

Thank you very much Uli, nice to see you like them! ;)

Thanks for posting the complete set up, know that it is very difficult and time consuming to develope and draw all the parts.
I outsourced this work on the 1:43 kits i did as i`m not realy confirm in CAD process, learned Autocad 20 years ago, but unfortunately forgot about it over the time.
It`s allways impressing to follow your work and how fast you progress with such an amount of details you cover, sensational! :)
The costs for materials are a bit cheaper then i expected, good to know if i can get to this point one day. The 3D printing is a thing i realy would like to cover, but 3D modeling is not easy to learn, especially if you can`t use it in job and do it only as hobby, i`m realy impressed by your skills in any way! Your using all technics in modeling from nowadays, i`m a bit of an old school modeler and only can look up to your work!

.........but, i ENJOY it! :D
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Re: MFH 911 Carrera RSR Turbo

Postby sky1911 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:43 am

Uli, thank you for the input. The place has been added to the link list :).

Guido, the numbers are rough ballpark, depending on what kind of equipment you get. If you get a professional UV exposure device (unless you are lucky on ebay and get one for <100€) they can easily go from 200€ upwards. But you could also build your own from an old A4 scanner case, add some UV lights to it, or dismantle one of those UV nail gloss cure things womenfolk fancy (relatively cheap on ebay). Your exposure area is limited, but if you're going for 1/43 or 1/24ish you should be good anyway. Then there is the etch bath. Of course there are professional solutions with pumps to keep the fluid in circulation to enable better etch results, but - yes, you guessed it, those can be relative expensive. Sometimes, if you are lucky, you can find old circuit board etching machines (with holding mechanisms for the etch sheets) for cheap on the big E. Otherwise you will just need the chemicals, a few plastic tubs for the liquids (1 for the etching, another for the cleaning) and do it in a "ghetto" fashion. If you go down that latter route, I'd say you could get by with maybe less than 200 for the devices. Of course, add to that the chemicals and the etching sheets. Sadly the Saemann page is being redesigned / updated at the moment, so no prices available and my last catalouge is from 2017 or older (if I can find it)... but yea. That's why I was asking if Uli is using sheets from them. Because some people even create their own etch sheets. Take a metal plate, add some UV-sensitive lacquer to it (that is being cured by the UV via the parts where it is not masked by printed template you designed, where as the other not cured parts will be washed off and leave the metal exposed -> hence susceptible to the etching liquid) and there you go. However, the result can be a mixed back, depending on how you apply that UV-sensitive lacquer - which is why most people don't DIY that ;).

As for 3D printing being clean.. well I recently saw a guy on LSP complain that his 3D printed part, once he had drilled into it, still contained liquid resin - a nasty surprise he didn't expect ;). The good thing with etching is - it is easier to design. You just have to remember a few things - i.e. layer thickness and minimum dimensions (=width) of individual lines that you can etch. Smaller that that limit and it will be lost in the etch bath. Think of a mesh. If the structure is to fine, you will likely end up with a patchwork of holes where you didn't want them or a big hole instead of the mesh. To an extent you can control that via the time you leave the part in the etch bath, but still. Etching is not done at the same speed on every area of the sheet. Which is why you should either stir the liquid or use a pump. Also fresh chemicals help, but of course are a biohazard, so it's not like, open the toilet, flush, problem solved - just as Uli said!
Sorry for the excursion into this. I'm more at home layering "2D" stuff to create "3D" shapes, so PE is easier for me to design that 3D models, so that is why this interests me a lot :).


Anyway, I'm eagerly awaiting the next installment of this thread and looking forward to seeing these parts making it into the car.
Cheers,
Roman
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Re: MFH 911 Carrera RSR Turbo

Postby gp-models » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:56 am

Not to highjack this thread, but thx for explanation Roman!
Still know the process from my own kits and i only wanted to know the nowadays costs for such run, still have to catch up the CAD progress again to turn from manual drawing to digital times. The prices for the equipment have become more friendly, so i started to get an eye on it again. Yeah, the chemical waste is a negativ point, but no problem here in germany as you have local points where you can got rid of such toxic waste officially without costs as private person. ;)
The 3D stuff is highly interesting cause it allows you to to your own stuff, re-create kit parts which are not realy detailed, that opens oppertunities to safe time, or even doing them cause it would be close to impossible to to them accurate by hand.
Keep it coming Uli, love the updates! :)
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Re: MFH 911 Carrera RSR Turbo

Postby jaykay » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:23 am

Seamann's website has been "under construction" for ages now. I was wondering if he is still active...
The materials ( metal sheets with photoresist coating, developer and etching bath ) are available from Conrad as well.
Unfortunately they closed their shop up the road from my place so now I have to order online again.
The offset printing film has become the most expensive part. You might find a place locally to do it for you. They are getting less and less though because printing is now mostly all digital and doesn't need the messy films anymore. 10 years ago I had a friend do them for free at work... those were the days :-)
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