Guess the correct MP4 red color

[dr_gn]

Yes, quite blatantly, in yer face, orange. I've got pictures of my own, some of which look plain red. If you look carefully online, you can find images that capture the real flourescent orange look pretty well.

I guess I'm forgetting some folks haven't seen the cars they are modelling in real life. Still, it seems a well established fact that RAL3024 is the correct colour...

Ta.

[plastiksurgeon]

...... and remember that photography does the same thing to a jar of paint in your hand as well as the color on the model in photographs. Thru photography, orange, especially flouro, is a hard bright color to replicate. The zing seems to disappear, and what you're left with is a redder rendition. And with models, the color temperature of the light under which you're photographing that model makes all the difference in the world to color as well. At least outside with the real car, we only have sunny and overcast. There are not the Limitless amount of color balances available inside a house. Color balance and color replication have been a problem in photography since the invention of the light tight box. Digital makes it better and easier but still not easy for someone without experience. In photography color is both hard to remember and hard to replicate exactly.Throw-in the Dayglo option and now most folks are really lost. Pretty tough even for me with 45 years of Photography experience. And even with all of that I agree with the person who said, just make it the way you want it, if it looks good to you, it's fine. As much as I have never considered photography an art, I do consider model building to be one. Like artists that paint and draw our models are representations of something real. As artists, they are our rendition. I'll bet if you took a hundred random McLaren models and put them on a table together you would be amazed at the rainbow of colors in the Dayglo alone. Yet, each and every one of them look right when they stand alone. I am not a rivet counter or a color judge. I love to look at a model and take in the feel of it, for all that it was meant by the artist, ....the builder, ....us !

Cheers,
Steve Mohlenkamp

[plastiksurgeon]

..... as far as Dayglo Orange going red in photography, even in photography studio conditions, just look at my signature icon image. It is an mp4/4 in the wet and is Dayglo orange, not red at all. Look at the rendition of the picture where it comes out red.....

With years of photoshop experience, there is no way I can turn the color of that car to the correct Dayglo Orange in that picture. It is just the limitations of photography and that is where the problem lies. But don't forget, it was an incredible Advantage for the people at M@r!b*r*.

Cheers,
Steve Mohlenkamp

[tubegenius]

Steve: The Tamiya TS-96 rattle can has a label on it that says "Use TS-96 sparingly - thick coats may lead to a darker shade." Was this your experience when you did your spoon testing? Can the user "fine tune" the results by using more coats. If so, this could be a good thing - just stop when you're happy.

[turboF1]

Steve, thank you for your insight into this subject. This debate has been going on for years, which I think is fun and what modeling is about. Finding the truth and trying to replicate it. But in the end it’s not a science, I agree like all art model building is about a feel. The suspension of reality and the ability of Master model makers to provide a window into a fantasy of looking at the real car.

[Grypham]

All in all a very interesting read. I don't intend to open another "can of worms", so just a brief Yes or No will suffice .... for anybody who has seen an actual car, were the Alfa Romeo 179's using the same color on their M**lboro cars as the MP4 series?
I only have photos to go by.

[plastiksurgeon]

Steve: The Tamiya TS-96 rattle can has a label on it that says "Use TS-96 sparingly - thick coats may lead to a darker shade." Was this your experience when you did your spoon testing? Can the user "fine tune" the results by using more coats. If so, this could be a good thing - just stop when you're happy.

That is a good point, and very true about the t s 96, every layer makes a difference in the color. It is definitely an additive process by layers to get where you want to be. What I found generally was, the more coats, the less they glow....

Thanks,
Steve Mohlenkamp

[JamesB]

Steve, thanks for your contribution!!! a master class as usual
I'll humbly add that the importance we give to this dayglo thing makes of us two groups: those who haven't seen that in the flesh, and those fortunate who have.
Besides, we probably add to it the "WTF" experience we had when we saw them for the first time.

[plastiksurgeon]

You're welcome James! Every time the subject comes up, I know that I hold a little-known answer in the fact that this orange photographs red. M@r!b*r* sure knew it too !

Thanks again,
Steve Mohlenkamp

[jaykay]

I wanted to stay out of it this time, but it's just too tempting :-)
To add my 2C to this here's a picture from Goodwood back in 2004. I took paint samples for colour matching with the real cars.
These were RAL2005, RAL3024 and RAL3026.



RAL3024 came out as the winner. 2005 was too orange and 3026 is a bit more red if you can call it that.

Now comes the fun part... there were small differences in colour between the numbers ( stickers ) and the big painted surfaces!
Not a big surprise actually if you have worked with RAL 3024 as it doesn't cover well and has to be built up in layers.
First it's like a neon pink and then with more coverage gets more orange/red.
Getting everything to match perfectly isn't easy and then, over time the paint and sticker will deteriorate differently under daylight ( UV-exposure ).

For our models there's another problem. The available decals all differ in their shade of "red". In case of Studio27 they were not even consistent from one manufacturer.
I decided for myself that most of all it's important the decals and paint match because if not, this will always stick out on the model like a sore thumb.
Back in 2004 ( pre ZERO paints ) I bought a pot of automotive RAL3024 and the best match to that paint were the Studio27 "High-Tech" stickers for the 1/20 kits. Now they're not available anymore and who knows if they would still be the same shade of red :-)

So I'd say, get the decals of your choice and then try to match them on your model with paint. It doesn't matter if you really get the perfect match to the shade of colour the cars had in their heyday. As noted extensively in the previous posts no picture you look at now can give you the correct answer. Especially none you look at on a screen :-)

However, if you like such discussions I dare you to argue over the holy grail of un-answerable colour discussions: Porsche 917 Hippie Burple! :-))