Kimi and Chuck Swap

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stubeck
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Re: Kimi and Chuck Swap

Post by stubeck »

lezdep wrote:As Kimi fan, the only positive I see, is that Kimi now can ignore team orders and finally win a race. I don't think
he will be able to do it in next 2 years. So, remaining races of 2018 are his only chances, imho.
I don't think they use team orders often at Ferrari, at least not like other teams. If they wanted to, there were times earlier in the season where they would have made him give up the position to Vettel as he's ahead in the championship.

I think having him around at a smaller team will be nicer than not having him around at all!
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Re: Kimi and Chuck Swap

Post by BMW »

It was inevitable, but I am disappointed in the way it happened.

Raikonnen had the best opportunity to win one final race last weekend, and Ferrari threw it away for him.

The way I see the race, was Vettel was trying to halfheartedly pass Raikonnen (thinking he was going to let him go, which he was not) into turn one, got out of position for turn 3, and drove himself into the wedge, after which the strategy Ferrari laid out had unravelled, and they were not able to come up with a new on on the spot, like Mercedes were.
Had Ferrari planned the race properly (a one-two with Raikonnen as winner) would have let both Raikonnen and Vettel create a 1-2 after first corner and let them get away from the Mercedes.
I say Raikonnen as winner, as that would not have hurt Vettel's championship too much, but would have been huge marketing wise, with the popularity of Raikonnen and his inevitable retirement. And a 1-2 in Italy just after Sergio Marchionne's death would have been perfect.

But no... Ferrari got over confident, and didn't plan the race (didn't even try to drive on the yellow tires whole weekend!), and thought they had the race pace in the bad, but they did not.

It is a shame Raikonnen's career has gone as it has in the last few years. He was excellent in his early days in Sauber and McLaren and in Ferrari and Lotus.

As for Charles Leclerc, that is very good news for him. Hopefully it will not be too soon for him. Filipe Massa was pulled into Ferrari along side Schumacher, and never really got to become the no1 driver (outside of the late season in 2008, where Ferrari let him down) and then got Alonso to content with later on. Hope Ferrari does not make the same mistake this time, and Leclerc will be able to hold him self high.

And I agree with the sentiment on Vettel. He keeps making silly mistakes like a rookie driver both this year and last it is very apparent, but if you look back, he did make a good few mistakes before as well in Redbull, but was able to get away with it as Adrian Newey's Red Bull was unbeatable.

Also "Chuck" ?? eh... :roll: :lol:
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Re: Kimi and Chuck Swap

Post by BMW »

Also, I am hoping for a Fujimi Alfa Romeo Sauber :D
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Re: Kimi and Chuck Swap

Post by daveyman »

The most interesting thing I take from all of this is that it proves its possible to turn a team that was on its knees around not long ago. I know the situations are different but Mclaren and Williams should look at what's happening.
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Re: Kimi and Chuck Swap

Post by JamesB »

Sacking a guy that just did a pole. Nuff said.
BTW, incidentally the fastest ever.

PS: no way it's "the wrong guy", sacking Vettel would be clumsy too.
They should have stayed as in 2018.
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Re: Kimi and Chuck Swap

Post by Seiiki »

stubeck wrote:
jaydar wrote:Ferrari let the wrong guy go. In my opinion, Seb is a head case. He would rather crash out than be passed and tactfully wait for the race to come to him. He threw away a championship last year and may do so again. Now Ferrari will have him and a second year rookie. The next person to be hired by Ferrari will be a therapist.
I think that's some revisionist history regarding 2017. Vettel had one crash in 2017 in Singapore which led to a retirement, and his other failure was related to a spark plug failure. He had 13 top 3 finishes which is the same as Hamilton, and even without the one crash would have still been 21 points down on Hamilton.

What Ferrari needs is to work on their race strategy so the drivers aren't questioning them. Red Bull is the only top team to seem to have a good handle on this, and is part of the reason Vettel won his 4 championships.
Interesting thoughts but I will give you a bit more as to how that indiscretion of Vettel crashing in Singapore actually threw away the championship last year.

The damage to both Ferraris were so severe that the crew couldn't repair both cars in time for the Malaysian GP. The failure of the battery system for Seb during qualifying and similar failure at the start line for Kimi was the result of the damages with their sidepods where their structural integrity and the mounting points weren't exactly correct, which lead to Seb starting at the back and Kimi did not even got out of the pits.

Following the finish, Seb ran into Stroll. The race was already over and he should be slowing down anyways. When the left rear suspension was broken and the tyre flipped over to the right. There were probably more damages than what it was visible.

Once again, the Ferrari took a very heavy jolt. Sometimes, the failure of the mountings and the parts were usually seemed to be okay until they had broken down. In this case, one of the mounting for the spark plugs might failed on Seb's car. On the warm-up lap, the driver might not have a clue because it was not going full power. But Seb knew that half-way at the first lap, he was losing power and behind (looked like he lost a cylinder). So he had no choice but to retire. All of those races were his to win to widen the championship. But instead Lewis got a total of 68 out of 75, while Seb only had 12.

That 56 points margin was more than enough to pad Lewis' slim 1 point lead prior to the Asian races. Seb ran out of races to catch up following Lewis' victory at Austin to make the gap to 65 with only 75 maximum still available. So even when Seb tapped Lewis (not the first time) in Mexico. The 10 points Lewis lost to Seb meant he won the title with 5 points to spare had Seb won the remaining two.

So it might looked like just one 'incident', but the effect complicated to 3 races. That all but destroyed not only the Drivers' Championship for Seb but Ferrari at the all important Constructors' Crown as well. Probably the costliest incident in the recent Formula 1 history.

As for this year. It is still a long ways to go. Ferrari is now clearly a better car than the Mercedes. So it will be interesting to see how both the protagonists fighting it out. However, I will still say this. The better driver who makes fewer errors will be capturing his fifth crown.
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Re: Kimi and Chuck Swap

Post by JamesB »

A bit of fun :lol: I just twitted this drawing for a TV caricature contest (or kinda)...
hope you like it. :D :D

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Re: Kimi and Chuck Swap

Post by stubeck »

Seiiki wrote:
stubeck wrote:
jaydar wrote:Ferrari let the wrong guy go. In my opinion, Seb is a head case. He would rather crash out than be passed and tactfully wait for the race to come to him. He threw away a championship last year and may do so again. Now Ferrari will have him and a second year rookie. The next person to be hired by Ferrari will be a therapist.
I think that's some revisionist history regarding 2017. Vettel had one crash in 2017 in Singapore which led to a retirement, and his other failure was related to a spark plug failure. He had 13 top 3 finishes which is the same as Hamilton, and even without the one crash would have still been 21 points down on Hamilton.

What Ferrari needs is to work on their race strategy so the drivers aren't questioning them. Red Bull is the only top team to seem to have a good handle on this, and is part of the reason Vettel won his 4 championships.
Interesting thoughts but I will give you a bit more as to how that indiscretion of Vettel crashing in Singapore actually threw away the championship last year.

The damage to both Ferraris were so severe that the crew couldn't repair both cars in time for the Malaysian GP. The failure of the battery system for Seb during qualifying and similar failure at the start line for Kimi was the result of the damages with their sidepods where their structural integrity and the mounting points weren't exactly correct, which lead to Seb starting at the back and Kimi did not even got out of the pits.

Following the finish, Seb ran into Stroll. The race was already over and he should be slowing down anyways. When the left rear suspension was broken and the tyre flipped over to the right. There were probably more damages than what it was visible.

Once again, the Ferrari took a very heavy jolt. Sometimes, the failure of the mountings and the parts were usually seemed to be okay until they had broken down. In this case, one of the mounting for the spark plugs might failed on Seb's car. On the warm-up lap, the driver might not have a clue because it was not going full power. But Seb knew that half-way at the first lap, he was losing power and behind (looked like he lost a cylinder). So he had no choice but to retire. All of those races were his to win to widen the championship. But instead Lewis got a total of 68 out of 75, while Seb only had 12.

That 56 points margin was more than enough to pad Lewis' slim 1 point lead prior to the Asian races. Seb ran out of races to catch up following Lewis' victory at Austin to make the gap to 65 with only 75 maximum still available. So even when Seb tapped Lewis (not the first time) in Mexico. The 10 points Lewis lost to Seb meant he won the title with 5 points to spare had Seb won the remaining two.

So it might looked like just one 'incident', but the effect complicated to 3 races. That all but destroyed not only the Drivers' Championship for Seb but Ferrari at the all important Constructors' Crown as well. Probably the costliest incident in the recent Formula 1 history.

As for this year. It is still a long ways to go. Ferrari is now clearly a better car than the Mercedes. So it will be interesting to see how both the protagonists fighting it out. However, I will still say this. The better driver who makes fewer errors will be capturing his fifth crown.
Its still just one incident, which to say he threw away the championship is a bit difficult. We'll never know what engine he was using in Malaysia or Japan, but an issue from one race should be found by the team, so pinning a technical issue on him after potentially 3 days of running is a bit unfair.

2018 is another matter entirely, but it all seems like Monday morning quarterbacking to me.

I'd also say the costliest incident in recent F1 history is still Mclaren asking a local copy shop to copy Ferrari f1 docs as well!
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Re: Kimi and Chuck Swap

Post by smirkoff »

Hey James, great to know other talent of you!! Kimi's "lost" gaze is perfect!!

About the swap, I think I'll be a dissonant voice here. I think Ferrari have all to gain with Leclerc. He has everything to be a future multiple champion, and will pressure both Vettel and Hamilton. The question will be how Ferrari will deal with the Vettel/Leclerc pairing (echoes of McLaren 2007?), but I see it positively for the sport.

And Kimi, beyond all the charm of his way of being, will be only heating a seat at Sauber. I prefer to watch Kimi back to WRC, or to Rally Cross, or even playing hockey wearing a gorilla costume than taking the place of some young talent like Ocon, or Russell, or Albon. Kimi did everything he had to do in Formula 1. It's time to go.
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Re: Kimi and Chuck Swap

Post by JamesB »

smirkoff wrote:Hey James, great to know other talent of you!! Kimi's "lost" gaze is perfect!!
Thanks Marcos!! :D honestly it's my favourite between the two :D
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